#26 2005-03-03 12:45:45

Justme

Member

Registered: 2005-01-20

Posts: 20

Re: In heterosexual porn,

How much members has this page? Some hundred? Perhaps some few thousand? :x

Intresting question! Might be more than you think.

Maybe one of the admins could give us a some rough figures?

Ell

Member

From: Australia

Registered: 2005-01-11

Posts: 99

Website

Re: In heterosexual porn,

I think, theres only few people who really want other porn. What do you think, why most (not all!) people consume porn? It´s the wish for fast satisfaction.

Some few other people want to see a aesthetic thing, something that also touches the soul. These few are mostly liberated enough to say they want other porn but the big mass is not. So you are right in this point. But some few won´t force the industry to change their habits.

I mean, why don´t this huge number of porn consumers join sites like this one? How much members has this page? Some hundred? Perhaps some few thousand? But what´s that against the millions of porn consumers? :x

I have said this before in this thread so forgive me, but I think the best you can hope to do is support and promote the people who do make "something that touches your soul". They're the folks taking the risks in terms of return on their investment. Maybe it won't change the face of the mass produced porn crappola but who cares? It will help secure your options and who knows "revolutions" can happen one site, one film, one book at a time...I'm pretty sure revolutions are happening right now.

---

His eyes seem to lead him to where his mouth needs to be.

Jo

Member

From: Germany

Registered: 2004-12-29

Posts: 257

Website

Re: In heterosexual porn,

So I hope, the *revolution* will spread over the www.orld...

(and thanx for your thoughts and feelings, it makes me feel connected to ... wordless things, you understand?)

Last edited by Jo (2005-03-25 10:30:31)

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L'éssentiel est invisible pour les yeux.

yYYYYy

Member

Registered: 2005-02-19

Posts: 25

Re: In heterosexual porn,

you see 10x male orgasms as female orgasms. why is this?

...but you HEAR the women 100x more than the men.

Men are visual, women are aural, tactile, olfactory...basically everything else, including visual but not in the same (linear) way that men are visual - this also applies in areas outside the artifical world of porn.

Ell

Member

From: Australia

Registered: 2005-01-11

Posts: 99

Website

Re: In heterosexual porn,

I had a funny moment the other night watching a film I'm reviewing -- I like to hear the banter between the performers so I had the volume turned up reasonably loud. When the guy came he roared so ferociously and loudly, sounding not unlike he'd been wounded mortally -- that it started by dog barking outside! I can only imagine what my neighbours think...

---

His eyes seem to lead him to where his mouth needs to be.

TonyComstock

Member

From: New York

Registered: 2005-02-03

Posts: 15

Website

Re: In heterosexual porn,

Men are visual, women are aural, tactile, olfactory...basically everything else, including visual but not in the same (linear) way that men are visual - this also applies in areas outside the artifical world of porn.

Bzzz. No. Wrong. Men are not from Mars; women are not from Venus. We are all from right here on planet earth, and (you may be surprised to learn) we're both of the same species.

"Porn for Women" has largely failed for two reasons:

1) It supposes that the porn that is commonly available is "porn for men". It is not.

2) It supposes that men and women are alien, diametrically opposed creatures. We are not.

-T.C.

---

Comstock Films

shoulders

Member

From: Austin, Texas

Registered: 2005-01-04

Posts: 7

Re: In heterosexual porn,

The only way to achieve a balanced perspective on porn is to step beyond political correctness.

Porn is a billion-dollar industry. In mainstream het porn, women are the primary objects of desire. Porn actresses get paid to do what they do, and I think it's likely they get paid a lot more than porn actors - they're the ones who get the star billing, not the swingin' dicks.

Who buys porn, and why?

The primary consumers of porn are men, and these men generally consume porn because they are sexually unsatisfied or just plain lonely - not because they hate or disrespect women.  Porn is generally used to enhance masturbation.  Men generally employ masturbation as a substitute for real physical intimacy.

So let's look at the big picture again from a socioeconomic picture....the women of mainstream porn are well-compensated and desired by millions of men.  Some porn stars become millionaires and start their own corporations or become porn producers/execs themselves, e.g. Jenna Jameson - and they do it with the money that anonymous unfulfilled men have spent on them. 

The men who consume porn, however, are generally doing so because they're lonely or sexually unfulfilled.  Maybe the average male porn consumer has a wife or girlfriend who refuses to participate in sexual exploration, or who just isn't very interested in sex.  Whereas the porn actresses on the TV screen are accepting, enthusiastic, open, desirous, willing, and non-judgmental, maybe the man who consumes porn has a partner who thinks oral sex is gross, or thinks semen is disgusting, or thinks anal sex is immoral; maybe his partner makes him feel like his perfectly natural desires and fantasies are shameful, abnormal, sick, sinful.  Or perhaps porn is the compromise he makes when he commits to a monogamous relationship and willingly deprives himself of any new sex partners, any further sexual variety, for which men are naturally hard-wired.  Or maybe he has no partner, no girlfriend or wife, no one to touch him and desire him, no one with whom to trade pleasures.

It seems clear to me that when you discard political correctness and simply examine the groups involved - the producers of porn, the men and women who act in porn, and the men who consume porn - the LEAST powerful group is the men who consume. They don't get money, success, or fame.  They are not desired and fantasized about. They don't get to have hot sex with beautiful, seemingy horny women like the male porn actors get to. They basically get nothing but an empty wallet, a slightly enhanced masturbatory experience, and a fleeting, faint illusion of intimacy and pleasure.

I know there are exceptions to this....couples who like watching porn together; female consumers of porn; men who consume porn even though they are completely fulfilled.  But these folks are in the minority. 

It's simply a mistake to assume that the women in mainstream porn have been used, objectified, and exploited.  In reality they're laughing all the way to the bank, and are empowering themselves by amassing money, influence, business experience, name recognition.  And it's simply a mistake to assume that the millions of men who watch porn are misogynists, do not respect women, enjoy seeing women be degraded, treat the real women in their lives as objects, etc.  That simply is not what drives most men to consume pornography.

A more accurate view:

Men have been socialized almost since birth to believe that their success and masculinity is inseparably attached to their ability to "hook up" with attractive females, and futhermore have been socialized to subscribe to a very narrow definition of female attractiveness (big boobs, blond hair, long legs, trim waist, curvaceous hips, full lips, etc. - the typical "Bud Girl").  Unfortunately, the demand for such women exceeds the supply, and the ability of your average Joe to attract them is similarly limited, because such women have been socialized to want wealthy, powerful, and/or prominent men.  Therefore, there's a great deal of unfulfilled desire - both sexual and emotional - out there, and porn is one of the many products that have been introduced into the marketplace to exploit this desire.  Of course porn objectifies women, but it's not out of disrespect for women, it's merely out of desire to SELL PRODUCT.

Let's stop bashing our fellow human beings just because they have penises, and adopt a more wholistic, more humanistic, more realistic, less accusatory, less politically correct view of pornography.

PC elmo

Member

From: Somewhere in the U.S.A.

Registered: 2004-12-28

Posts: 272

Re: In heterosexual porn,

That is a very simple and rhobust explanation.  It naturally follows that the majority of dedicated members of sites like this one tend to think for themselves, and therefore do not subscribe to such fallacious associations and narrow definitions of beauty and worth.  The forum here shows it.

Somewhat ironically, though, "political correctness" does occasionally get to the right answers, albeit for all the wrong reasons.  It is simply unhealthy to envision ourselves as, and to force ourselves to be, that which we are not.  No politics necessary.

---

"There is always room for something more."

donpiano

Member

Registered: 2005-01-06

Posts: 3

Re: In heterosexual porn,

70s had the best movies. Anyone know of any good sites for this - with downloads?

richard

Member

Registered: 2005-01-04

Posts: 658

Re: In heterosexual porn,

I don't think people even know what they want until it's shoved in front of them.  And the porn industry is totally out of touch with its consumers - it doesn't survey them, it doesn't do market research, it just pitches (mostly) where it knows it can make money, and it doesn't even bother with production values.  Consequently, the vast majority of porn consumers are settling for what they get.

When I was a kid, you couldn't buy plain bottled water.   The corner shop only sold fizzy, fruit or milk drinks.  Nobody sold water because nobody asked for it, or was it vice versa?  But after one brand hit the market and was successful, it spawned an entire industry.  There are plenty of other examples around, and I think it's the same with porn.  I bet most of you were, at some stage, satisfied with Hustler or Penthouse?

The other reason there isn't more good quality porn around is that the sort of people who are capable of making it are mostly too proud to.  Imagine if David Lynch turned his hand  to making porn - but he won't, because we're supposed to be ashamed of it.  And where would he get a quailty production team from?

No1steelerfan

Member

From: Pennsylvania, U.S.

Registered: 2005-06-03

Posts: 84

Re: In heterosexual porn,

Richard, if you and Lauren ever decide to try making a tasteful porn movie, I would be the first in line to see it. Hell, I'd work on it for free! You two have such great insight for what we want to see. You have the ability to take an adult film (Porn just does not fit when describing this site) and turn it into an art. Lauren is a superb editor and not a bad agonist, if I looked at the correct number video. Let me know where and when you need some free help! Australia has always been my dream vacation spot anyway.;)

Last edited by No1steelerfan (2005-07-10 12:51:15)

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Of all the things that God created, is there anything as fascinating as the clitoris?

salsasalsa

Member

Registered: 2005-08-07

Posts: 98

Re: In heterosexual porn,

The only way to achieve a balanced perspective on porn is to step beyond political correctness.

Porn is a billion-dollar industry. In mainstream het porn, women are the primary objects of desire. Porn actresses get paid to do what they do, and I think it's likely they get paid a lot more than porn actors - they're the ones who get the star billing, not the swingin' dicks.

Who buys porn, and why?

The primary consumers of porn are men, and these men generally consume porn because they are sexually unsatisfied or just plain lonely - not because they hate or disrespect women.  Porn is generally used to enhance masturbation.  Men generally employ masturbation as a substitute for real physical intimacy.

So let's look at the big picture again from a socioeconomic picture....the women of mainstream porn are well-compensated and desired by millions of men.  Some porn stars become millionaires and start their own corporations or become porn producers/execs themselves, e.g. Jenna Jameson - and they do it with the money that anonymous unfulfilled men have spent on them. 

The men who consume porn, however, are generally doing so because they're lonely or sexually unfulfilled.  Maybe the average male porn consumer has a wife or girlfriend who refuses to participate in sexual exploration, or who just isn't very interested in sex.  Whereas the porn actresses on the TV screen are accepting, enthusiastic, open, desirous, willing, and non-judgmental, maybe the man who consumes porn has a partner who thinks oral sex is gross, or thinks semen is disgusting, or thinks anal sex is immoral; maybe his partner makes him feel like his perfectly natural desires and fantasies are shameful, abnormal, sick, sinful.  Or perhaps porn is the compromise he makes when he commits to a monogamous relationship and willingly deprives himself of any new sex partners, any further sexual variety, for which men are naturally hard-wired.  Or maybe he has no partner, no girlfriend or wife, no one to touch him and desire him, no one with whom to trade pleasures.

It seems clear to me that when you discard political correctness and simply examine the groups involved - the producers of porn, the men and women who act in porn, and the men who consume porn - the LEAST powerful group is the men who consume. They don't get money, success, or fame.  They are not desired and fantasized about. They don't get to have hot sex with beautiful, seemingy horny women like the male porn actors get to. They basically get nothing but an empty wallet, a slightly enhanced masturbatory experience, and a fleeting, faint illusion of intimacy and pleasure.

I know there are exceptions to this....couples who like watching porn together; female consumers of porn; men who consume porn even though they are completely fulfilled.  But these folks are in the minority. 

It's simply a mistake to assume that the women in mainstream porn have been used, objectified, and exploited.  In reality they're laughing all the way to the bank, and are empowering themselves by amassing money, influence, business experience, name recognition.  And it's simply a mistake to assume that the millions of men who watch porn are misogynists, do not respect women, enjoy seeing women be degraded, treat the real women in their lives as objects, etc.  That simply is not what drives most men to consume pornography.

A more accurate view:

Men have been socialized almost since birth to believe that their success and masculinity is inseparably attached to their ability to "hook up" with attractive females, and futhermore have been socialized to subscribe to a very narrow definition of female attractiveness (big boobs, blond hair, long legs, trim waist, curvaceous hips, full lips, etc. - the typical "Bud Girl").  Unfortunately, the demand for such women exceeds the supply, and the ability of your average Joe to attract them is similarly limited, because such women have been socialized to want wealthy, powerful, and/or prominent men.  Therefore, there's a great deal of unfulfilled desire - both sexual and emotional - out there, and porn is one of the many products that have been introduced into the marketplace to exploit this desire.  Of course porn objectifies women, but it's not out of disrespect for women, it's merely out of desire to SELL PRODUCT.

Let's stop bashing our fellow human beings just because they have penises, and adopt a more wholistic, more humanistic, more realistic, less accusatory, less politically correct view of pornography.

BRAVO!

richard

Member

Registered: 2005-01-04

Posts: 658

Re: In heterosexual porn,

Richard, if you and Lauren ever decide to try making a tasteful porn movie, I would be the first in line to see it. Hell, I'd work on it for free! You two have such great insight for what we want to see. You have the ability to take an adult film (Porn just does not fit when describing this site) and turn it into an art. Lauren is a superb editor and not a bad agonist, if I looked at the correct number video. Let me know where and when you need some free help! Australia has always been my dream vacation spot anyway.;)

It's time SOMEBODY made a tasteful porn movie.  Comstock Films are doing it doccumentary style, but I've never heard of a plot based adult film which was worth watching.  Anyone?

Ell

Member

From: Australia

Registered: 2005-01-11

Posts: 99

Website

Re: In heterosexual porn,

My friend Flash specialises in reviewing porn "Classics", his reviews are thorough. http://forum.adultdvdtalk.com/flash/favorites.html

The Opening Of Misty Beethoven is highly regarded - Gamelink have it in stock.

The topic is vast but just quickly;

Making feature porn is difficult and expensive. Most of the stuff made during the 70's was able to be made on the basis that the filmmaker would make a good return by having the films screened in theatres. Most pornographers work with tiny budgets.

Feature or plot based porn besides needing the professional skills of any other film production generally requires a script, a script requires people who can act and deliver lines, most people who can act and deliver lines don't make their careers doing porn as we know it today.

Features/ plot based porn are still made mostly by the bigger companies like Vivid and Wicked who also make soft core versions for cable (the equivalent of the 1970's porn theatre?) where the money is.

The hurdles to making explicit films in Australia are big and any film  depicting actual sex is classified X 18+ automatically curtailing its legal  distribution. I would love to see quality explicit films made and screened here.

I could ramble on even more but I best stop.

---

His eyes seem to lead him to where his mouth needs to be.

salsasalsa

Member

Registered: 2005-08-07

Posts: 98

Re: In heterosexual porn,

Richard, if you and Lauren ever decide to try making a tasteful porn movie, I would be the first in line to see it. Hell, I'd work on it for free! You two have such great insight for what we want to see. You have the ability to take an adult film (Porn just does not fit when describing this site) and turn it into an art. Lauren is a superb editor and not a bad agonist, if I looked at the correct number video. Let me know where and when you need some free help! Australia has always been my dream vacation spot anyway.;)

It's time SOMEBODY made a tasteful porn movie.  Comstock Films are doing it doccumentary style, but I've never heard of a plot based adult film which was worth watching.  Anyone?

Nine Songs?
Haven't see it, though.

Also there was a Spanish film recently (the poster showed a young woman on a scooter), but it was not really hardcore.

joeintoronto

Member

Registered: 2005-08-08

Posts: 6

Re: In heterosexual porn,

Whew, this is all very deep, well thought out and well-reasoned argument and while I generally agree with the assertions I think that as in all thing alive there really is no black and white answer that absolutely defines things. 

Shoulders makes a very compelling statement about which and why hets consume porn and even the power relationships in what he terms Mainstream porn (which I take to be the stuff that gets packaged and reviewed and sold in old-fashioned bricks and mortar stores as well as through the net).

But go off the main road a few blocks and the so-called stars are the woman next door often willingly but more often than not under some more subtle 'relationship power struggle' submitting to the fantasy of her male partner.  How many times does a so-called amateur submission to a site start with 'he begged and begged and finally here I am'? Then the consumer is greated by a hidden face or a face with a grim, disinterested look.

I prefer the amateur sites to the more polished and professional sites exactly because of the ring of falsehood or fakery in those 'mainstream' products that has been commented on a great deal above. I prefer to see a real woman and man interacting together and doing stuff they dig together. A real smile, giggle, moan whatever, a real orgasm either the shudder of the woman or the deep thrust of a male into what at that moment is the true centre of all being... wow!

But on those sites you can see three common types: strippers and other professional sex-workers who want to make some extra $$, maybe start a big-site, real couples getting off on showing off, and just as often a woman with a deer in the headlights or grim look on her face going through the motions because she is on the bottom of the power equation in their relationship.

That last group breaks my heart and I think instantly of the silicone enhanced human dolls who inhabited and continue to inhabit the meat-grinder kind of porn. I have such mixed feelings then because by supporting it I'm encouraging men to 'beg and beg' or worse and I know it. But, the real thing, performed by a happy, fun-loving couple is such dynamite...

I long ago rejected the slick, Hollywood porn so that it wouldn;t have my support and the meat grinder wouldn't be on my concious.  But now I see so many deer the headlights that amateur is turning sour too... Whats a horn dog with hardon to do??

PC elmo

Member

From: Somewhere in the U.S.A.

Registered: 2004-12-28

Posts: 272

Re: In heterosexual porn,

Whats a horn dog with hardon to do??

I know this may sound counter-intuitive, but I think that's exactly part of the problem here.

Usually, the most enticing persons or situations come to us when we are NOT looking for them with the eyes through which we eventually come to see and appreciate them. 

How many quality women have you met -- even sexually -- because you were looking for them with a hardon?  You know whom/what you'll probably find with only that in mind, and the same is true for pornography.

Check out ashbash's comments on BA in the other half of the forum: http://www.beautifulagony.com/forum/vie … php?id=222 .  Who among us doesn't have that excited inner teen just crying out for some "good stuff!"

And best of all, all the contributors WANT to contribute, which turns out to be a large part of why the material here, and a select few other places, is so preferable to the over-polluted mainstream.  That it also helps you relieve your temporary enlargements is more of a bonus than the main objective.

---

"There is always room for something more."

joeintoronto

Member

Registered: 2005-08-08

Posts: 6

Re: In heterosexual porn,

All true and we are really only talking semantics. 

I am a consumer of porn who has thought about why and what I consume or don't consume.  I believe that any consumer of porn is metaphorically a 'horndog with a hardon'.

I would find it hard to accept that very many consumers of porn are doing so for any social or artistic purpose. The objective purpose may not be to masturbate every time one consumes porn but the drive to seek it out I believe has a sexual root.

Actually, though I thinks its true that I look at porn when I am really bored or need diversion from some professional difficulty I might be facing at any given moment that becomes temporarily too much'.  I find it takes me totally out of my head and the situation becomes easier to unravel. So maybe its not always sexually motivated.

If I happen to come across some "good stuff' then I get turned on.  Often it passes by my eyes like so much scenery in a Hanna Barbera cartoon.

Regardless BA is a terrific idea and very enjoyable on any level.

Flud

Member

Registered: 2005-08-19

Posts: 1

Re: In heterosexual porn,

This site truely is the good stuff!
Like the minority of men out there i love seeing the female pleasure side of porn. I tried getting into mainstream porn, but found it impossible to watch as it was so "scripted" (blowjob, sex, anal, finishing with a face shot). It is just not a turn on!
I want to see real sex, real love! I want to see it when the couple are doing for the sheer pleasure and connection involved!
I did find the 'creampie' sites a littel more satisfying, but they too were void of any female pleasure or feeling.
That is why i was exstatic when i stumbled across this site in my surfing. This is reality. This site praises the real magic in sexual pleasure.
Bravo to BA....stay true what matters!!